Talk: Plasmid

The predefined_plasmids.lst contains more than just plasmids. It contains tonics as well. The list should probably be replaced with just list of plasmids at the top of the article.

predefined_plasmids.lst is certainly interesting, but probably doesn't really provide much info to readers.

Response From Chasmyr: I put that file in there as a premature way to affirm what plasmids and tonics exist in the game, it is actually no where near accurate to what has shown up in the final cut of the game. It will be removed entirely as I work on the plasmid and tonic formatting (i did the work on physical tonics as you can see, hopefully it looks much nicer now) as it is nothing more than an interesting fact... Mabey it should have it's own subpage... Either way, you're right, it does not belong where it is, in the form it is.

Confusion with injection?

I know someone other than me has noticed this, but how are regular plasmid bottles used to splice yourself? In the electro bolt cutscene, Jack used an EVE hypo, which also confuses me...

They must come with some kind of hypo for injection, or you use like some kind of hypo that either: A) is kept in Jack's pocket (god knows why) B) is the Electrobolt hypo, just re-used for everything else in a bottle -- 16807 Compunctious Transgression

They put it in bottles and they use the hypos to take the fluid out then you inject into yourself. Didn't people see the cutscene where he injects himself with electro bolt after getting it out from a bottle? Registered contributor 23:14, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

They probably didnt want to have to do special animations for each kind of Plasmid/Tonic so they shortcutted the whole process and showed the cartoony product instructional video sequence instead. 75.36.143.151 13:19, July 15, 2014 (UTC)

Plasmid insanity confuses me

The article says that plasmids make you insane after excessive use so why doesn't the character go insane. In the game you constantly are using plasmids and your character stays sane. Does your character not go insane because he doesn't use them enough because I think j ack and subject delta use them enough but they keep their sanity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.244.55.182 (talk • contribs) 15:04, 2010 June 20. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Splicing only causes insanity over prolonged periods of use. I.e it would take weeks or months for the damage to become apparent. My personal theory is that Jack underwent some kind of gene therapy when he was younger (under Yi Suchong's care) to make him more resistant to the genetic damage of Splicing. But who knows, after the end of BioShock he might have ended up with mental/physical damage like Orrin Oscar Lutwidge. In the case of the Alpha Series and Subject Delta, they probably did go crazy after a while. Maybe Subject Delta was a bit mentally unstable during the events of the game; Since he couldn't talk and we can't see his face we don't know ; ) ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 00:02, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

my theory is that since most splicers dont actuly "use" the plasmids constantly like jack and subject delta it lingirs in thier blood stream and slowly replaces healthy cells that way.Mister bubbles 18:00, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I think that Jack isn't taking insane doses of the stuff at one time.-- l 20:31, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

Plasmid Logistics

I'm working on adapting BioShock for use in a "pen and paper" RPG system, and I'm slowly going through all the realities of Rapture, the things we gloss over while lingering in the video game format. So, we all know from that first real cutscene in both BS and BS2, the way you take on a new plasmid is through injection. Jack uses a spare hypo with that first bottle, Delta does something very similar. I've got some theories as to how that actually fiddles with your genetic code, but that's not really what I'm worried about here. Anyone remember that first trailer where the unseen protagonist fights off the Big Daddy for that sister? Injects himself with a small hypo of Insect Swarm and immediately uses it. Then in the opening cinematic of 'Shock2, one of Lamb's splicers injects himself with Hypnotize to neutralize Delta. Again, instant use. So here's the question: Are you injecting yourself off camera before every use? We know Jack injects himself with an EVE hypo when he runs dry, and Delta uses his Spiderman-like abilities to consume EVE from the mounted canisters on his back. Did that unknown sister hunter in the first trailer just happen to be using Insect Swarm for the first time? Did that splicer never use Hypnotize before? Short version: does a splicer inject him or herself every time they want to use a plasmid, or does injecting it the one time write a plasmid into your genetic code only to be activated later?C Griffith Knowles 04:59, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

First off Incorrect. Lamb's Splicer injected Electrobolt in the cinematic. And no your not injecting off camera, once it's in there it's in there. After Splicing (insert Plasmid here) all you need is to resupply eve.IsaacGray 15:29, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

Do they wear off?

One thing I've always wondered is if the effects of Plasmids wear off over time. It would seem unlikely since injecting yourself allegedly rewrites your genetic code, but given that ADAM requires constant use (and is therefore addicting) maybe not splicing up with the same plasmid over time causes its effects to diminish.

The reason this comes to mind is the Dandy Dental offer. How can you give a "free sample" of a plasmid if its effects are permanent and only require the use of EVE to work? Given that the protagonists of the games have only been spliced for a very short amount of time, there's no true way to know if plasmids eventually wear off. RaptureWhaleFan 01:28, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

I've mentioned this before in the Gene Bank talk page, but for the most part, Plasmids and Tonics are permanent. Once the code from the Plasmid and Tonic are implanted, they can't be simply undone. The only possible solution is to disable their usage through the Gene Bank.

As for Dandy Dental and the free samples, it's one of the businesses Frank Fontane established to gain leverage in Rapture through "Free Samples" of Plasmids and Tonics. Since Fontane was mostly responsible for marketing ADAM, it was an opportunity to gain customer interest for it's usage, and to make competitors lose business, hence the closings of Chomper's Dental and Painless Dental. Evans0305 01:53, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

BaS Plasmids predecessors to Bioshock 1+2 plasmids?

Could the drinkable plasmids be the unstable predecessors to the plasmids/ combat plasmids seen in the first and second Bioshocks, which is why we don't see nor use them (apart from Fontaine saying to switch back to injectables due to ADAM usage in creation) ?

• Old Man Winter --> Winter Blast
  • Unstable due to creation of dry ice
• Devils Kiss --> Incinerate!
  • Unstable due to balls of fire instead flame
• Possession --> Enrage/ Hypnotize
  • Unstable due to "ghostly presense"
• Bucking Bronco --> Telekinesis
  • Unstable due to aim range (picks up multiple objects in path instead of bringing towards person)
• Shock Jockey --> Electro Bolt
  • Unstable due to crystalization
• Peeping Tom --> Scout
  • Unstable due to loss of sensation (?) missing limbs due to invisibility or "seeing ghosts behind the walls"

Tricksteroffools (talk) 06:08, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

The drinkable Plasmids weren't the predecessors to the injectable ones used in Bioshock, they were made FROM the injectable Plasmids. The conversion process altered the structure of them which is why they have slightly different powers and effects. We do see some people using injectable plasmids in Burial at sea, like the waiter in Le Temps Perdu who uses Houdini, Incinerate! and Winter Blast.

During my playthrough of Burial at Sea Episode 2, wandering around looking at advertisements, posters and the like, I came across an advertisement. Now there was an advertisement for "Hypnotize the Big Daddy" that would come "the next year" on one of the levels, but during a section of gameplay, when you're introduced to the noisemaker bolt, there was an advertisement for Incinerate!, and it said coming soon or something along those lines. Just wanted to add that in although I do like the other contributor's thoughts on it on the previous post! 108.211.122.20 19:34, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

The 'conversion' is a matter of encapsulation and transference into the recipients body (via the digestive tract with all its potentially destructive chemical processes instead of directly into the blood stream or even into the tissues where the plasmid is desired to form - in the arm frequently).  That should NOT change the plasmids genetic patterning (which is quite specific in order to work) to make it do something differently.   Also nothing says that there werent also Houdini, Incinerate! and Winter Blast in drinkable form (thought if they took 10X the ADAM they would be at a premium cost affordable to many fewer people)   75.36.140.23 01:57, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Dancing Plasmid Bottle Commercial :

I could just see a live commercial appearing on TV just like the ones from the late 40s with the dancing packages of cigarettes done between live drama segments   Playhouse 20000 Leagues

Are We Sure About That?

I have a small issue with a recent addition and was hoping to discuss it here:

The idea was proposed to Ryan, by then administrating the late Fontaine's ADAM company, and a few drinkable Plasmids were released to the public. They were abandoned for good when the Civil War erupted and ADAM became scarce.

The article asserts that Yi Suchong developed Drinkable Plasmids, presented the idea to Fontaine, the mobster rejected it, Andrew Ryan took over Fontaine Futuristics (Business), Suchong reintroduced the idea to Ryan, he accepted it, and put out a limited run. Are we sure that's what happened?

The whole of Burial at Sea (DLC) was vague and full of little inconsistencies, but, based on what I interpreted, I thought that the timeline went like this: Suchong developed Drinkable Plasmids, presented the idea to Fontaine, the mobster accepted it, put out a limited run, Andrew Ryan publicly commended him for his scientific achievement, Fontaine got the statistics showing this method was financially bad, Ryan took over Fontaine Futuristics, etc.

I know this method (put out a line of product before all the information is presented) is ludicrous from a logical/business standpoint, but, unless I'm mistaken, weren't their details like Audio Diary dates that backed the second interpretation up? Was it ever formally stated that the Drinkable Plasmids came out after Fontaine's takedown? If that's the case, how was Old Man Winter passed out to Ray Lardner and others before the Septemeber shootout at Fontaine Fisheries? Can someone sort this out for me?

Unownshipper (talk) 21:23, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

I'm still considering that the dates of Product Recall and You Stupid Bastard were inverted by mistake. Even if Fontaine recorded his threat to Suchong after his supposed death, he never sent it out of the department store and the scientist could have deduced that he was definitely dead. From what I gather with the audio diaries, Fontaine recalled the drinkable plasmid production when he realized it was costing too much ADAM (and he was counting on it to strike Ryan with his Splicers). I can't say if it went on sales for a limited run for sure though, Fontaine could have diverted the production to arm as much of his loyal men he could. As for the rest, there's no more details but Suchong noticing Fink's use of his Plasmids in October and him proposing to Ryan who only had recently taken the Plasmid business. Pauolo (talk) 21:53, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

With all the vagueness you could postulate some limited 'luxury' product run with the extra ADAM cost paid by premium prices by some subset of buyers.  A loss-leader Prestige item among the competing companies ?  Someone didnt mention it to Fontaine? (or whatever management who would understand messups like that might put them fatally on Fontaines sh*tlist).  Some lost memo ? Perhaps 'the bugs' that were assured to get 'worked out' never did, etc...(or they were feeling out the market to see if demand warranted alot of R&D to 'fix' the production.)   Rapture really isnt a huge market so the 'drinkable' run that did happen wasnt that big, though the feature would be a good one if the cost came down.

The same could possibly happen again under Ryan (though I still would figure the whole FF company would still be in a state of chaos after the seisure/riots/manhunts/takeover/reorganization in the few months upto the time of BaS, and hardly likely to be bringing out new product lines yet).  Post-Kashmir, depending on how fast the fighting spread, there was alot of time until BS1, but now the shortages and priorities were shifting.

Its within the realm of possibility that 'old man winter' could ONLY be administered orally

75.36.141.250 01:45, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

I figure the need for combat Plasmids was a priority against the commodity of how you Splice yourself, and of course the ADAM cost. Pauolo (talk) 22:47, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

This is all well and good, but I think we should really reconsider putting this interpretation on the main page of the article (instead here on the Talk) when it depends upon us being correct about the Audio Diary dates being accidentally swapped, which again is our assertion, not the game's. Where is it implied that Suchong went to Ryan with the ideas? I know it was mentioned somewhere that Ryan praised him for the invention (whether as his employer or as an appreciative observer is not clear), but I can't recall where. That detail might help us clear this up.

Unownshipper (talk) 22:19, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough, I'll try to think of a less interpretative version for this paragraph, though we know Old Man Winter existed sometimes before Ryan introduced the drinkable Plasmids. And did you mean Observation 33? It is contradicting the other sources from both episodes so I'm not sure what to do with that one. Pauolo (talk) 22:47, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate it. And yes, Observation 33 is the one I was thinking of. Darn it, though. It doesn't reveal any real details. Unfortunate.

Unownshipper (talk) 23:10, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Is it better like that? It should sound more like a summarizing of informations than a corrected timeline. Pauolo (talk) 23:26, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

I just read your changes and I think it is an improvement. I still have a minor problem with the line When Fontaine Futuristics passed into Ryan's hands, the latter gave his approval and a few drinkable Plasmids were released to the public as a painless alternative to the original injectable products. It suggests deliberate action on Ryan's part.

I had assumed that Ryan, when he took control of Fontaine's assets, just sold off the remaining stock of drinkable Plasmids, after rebranding them with the Ryan Industries logo, in Fontaine Plasmids rather than continued the ADAM-costly production of drinkables. What are your thoughts on this. Sorry if I'm being picky, I just want to get this sorted out.

Unownshipper (talk) 00:05, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

I never saw it under this angle, but then we don't know how many were already produced and how many were distributed among Fontaine's men as Ray Lardner mentions it. Also I made a mistake, I should have said "recalled" instead of "aborted," the meaning isn't the same. Perhaps that's what bothered you. Pauolo (talk) 00:21, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

EDIT: I rewrote it a little, also to specify that they were sold as Ryan Industries products. Pauolo (talk) 00:24, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

RE EDIT: In fact, only Bucking bronco is advertised in-game as a Fontaine Futuristics products. Pauolo (talk) 00:31, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

Way the Observation 33 is phrased it sounds like its after Suchonfg worked for Ryan  (Mr Ryan...)  Would Ryan have that conversation context (like over cocktails) if Suchong was working for Fontaine?    Also it is after Suchong started looking through Tears (first when ??) to to see Finks theft,  then to develop it for Fontaine (to be subsequently rejected over the 10X issue...)    Does anything else sound like Suchong had seen tears long before most of the BaS events?

75.36.140.146 11:33, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

Tears started appearing near October 8th when Elizabeth arrived in Rapture (or supposedly, we don't really have a solid source for that) and Suchong has been recording a lot of observations since then (he was at #33 on October 20th). The date means nothing though because, as you said, it sounds like he already proposed the drinkable Plasmids to Ryan when he recorded that note. However I don't remember anything hinting at Tears appearing before October 1958. Pauolo (talk) 18:34, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

Second Quote

The second quote by Atlas can be found on the page preceding the Prologue of BioShock: Rapture, which states,

“	Imagine if you could be smarter, stronger, healthier. What if you could even have amazing powers, light fires with your mind? That's what plasmids do for a man.	”
—The man who calls himself Atlas in BioShock

Does anyone know where this is supposed to be said in BioShock? —Mainframe98 _{talk·blog·edits} 18:20, July 21, 2016 (UTC)