Talk:Fraternal Order of the Raven

We all know that Booth was the real demon. ZanyDragon (talk) 12:38, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

And what's the deal with the "Serpent of Nations"? ZanyDragon (talk) 05:04, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Cryptic hint to the uninitiated in extreme ideologies here: Lanz von Liebenfels, Theozoology.

Booth was clearly a sinner, plain and true! ZanyDragon (talk) 03:54, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, we all agree. Why are you restating this?

Unownshipper (talk) 06:34, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

What is the significance of the "Serpent of Nations"? ZanyDragon (talk) 05:07, February 22, 2014 (UTC)

I Don't Buy It

A wiki contributor added this tidbit to the Behind the Scenes section:

*If one is to speed up the enviromental sound in the Raven headquarters significantly, one can hear that the enviromental sound is actually a song. This song is slowed down so much so that a singing female voice can only be heard as a very low pitched noise. This is also present in one of the houses in the Comstock Center Rooftops . You can find a video here .

Not to be rude, but I think people are looking too much into this. If you play anything at 1000% it's bound to sound like something different. It's like people who play The Beatles' White Album in reverse and hear satanic messages or seeing Jesus face in a piece of toast. Or what about the endless parade of people who claim to hear Songbird's screech in Fort Frolic?

This is sounding like trivia more than behind the scenes information. If this really sounded like a song it'd be one thing, but what are the "lyrics" supposed to be saying? In the same video the vocalizations sound masculine at just a few hundred percent slower speed. Maybe this should be removed from the main page, thoughts?

Unownshipper (talk) 08:10, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

You should see how many crap these youtube videos can bring on, just like the Songbird cry in the original BioShock... I swear sometimes wikis can even be more accurate than any gaming websites, even regarding walkthroughs. Still, I find this potential Easter Egg to be more believable than any other we refuted, mostly because the background ambient audio track at normal speed sounds weird enough to have been something completely different before being slowed down. Pauolo (talk) 10:00, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

Going to have to agree with Unownshipper on this one. The human mind looks for paterns by nature and will see them even when they are not there. It may sound like a voice, but it does not mean there is one there. And I do not think it is a voice due to how quickly the sounds can change. As for the Songbird death sound, it might be the same sound or and latered version. People DO resuse stuff. sm --Solarmech (talk) 12:08, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

If this post I made is just not right, than remove it. Now that I think of it, you are right. And by the way, the songbird cry enviromental sound is used in ALL Bioshock games, including 2 and infinite.

 

Irrational Games has always recycled a few sounds and ideas here and there, like the syringe sound coming from System Shock 2. It doesn't surprise me for that one too. Pauolo (talk) 12:55, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it an Easter Egg considering it isn't pointed towards anything (like the Pac-Man cheese in the Farmer's Market or the Romeo and Juliet dialog in the Possession vigor(/plasmid...)). You can definitely hear a female voice, but its not a song, its just the same words on a loop. Like Paulo implied, they most likely used an old audio file and changed it to fit in to the ambiance. --Shacob (talk) 15:43, October 31, 2014 (UTC)

Citation on the Order

Hi. The cited source-material for the Comstock quote about the "white man as 'imago dei'" is one of the two Voxophones located within the Raven society headquarters, forgive me, I forget which one or its name - I am no liar though, I promise... "Lie of the Emancipator" or something...

Yes, bringing the idea into the article and the other articles how absolutely racially-obsessed the "Founders" and "Comstock" were is a good idea, my lack of editorial and stylistic polish notwithstanding... People do not generally see how totally monomaniacal the racial/racist fixed idea is here - the Caucasoid Sapiens strain as the ONLY, EXCLUSIVE bearer of the image of "Godhood" or anthropogenetic heir ALONE of the "divine spark", etc. - it's bonkers, really...and even within "Aryanism", "Nordicism" of the Anglo-Saxon variety is the game here because, & per such whacko ideology, the "marginally white" Irish, Jews and others (the whole Jewish thing was scrapped developmentally for whatever reason, but the "YID" graffiti on the Vending Machine, before the Police Impound fight, is a "hint"; one other is the initial "Welcome Center" dialogue of citizens about "new stock replacing Franklins" or something) are intra-specific lower-tier castes even within "Aryan-kind" allegedly - I just think exploring these factual, substantiation-verifiable matters is worth undertaking and sort of currently not very infinitely intelligently handled... All these sub-currents run under the game, every where, all the time, you know?... Some stuff made it into the game, some didn't...

Comstock outright declaring, imperiously, "WHITE MAN IS HOMO SAPIENS ALONE" (his basic point) would show people more clearly how "fringe" and absolutely dynamite-laden the Founder folk and their world is... The Raven Order is comparable to the S.S. of the National-Socialist Party, in my view - i.e. the "elite corps" "political soldiery"... Except for the one Crow fellow at the end who possibly discovered the truth behind the lies of Comstock and "re-converted" upwardly...

Forgive my lack of Wiki-skills and web-savviness in general.

Eh, no need to stress. :) I do remember this quote from the game but I thought it could be completed. On the racial issues expressed by Comstock, there are a few voxophones to show he wasn't himself racist, or he wasn't showing himself publicly as being plain racist. On the other hand, the Raven order is definitively an extremist branch of the Founders obsessed on racial purity, but that aside I think the general theme explored by the game has more to do with American Exceptionalism (or one would say here Columbian Exceptionalism) than just racism. If you keep aside the social issues related to this era, you'll find lots of similitudes with the society in Rapture (the "best and brightest") and how both Rapture and Columbia were conceived to save what people their builder judged worthy of saving from some impeding doom (were it be the World Ward or the atomic holocaust). Anyway, I'm just saying that Infinite isn't much focused on racism, as of hatred of colored people. I'm still going to look for that quote, but the search system on wikia websites suck so I'll do a direct search into the game's text files. Pauolo (talk) 13:17, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Yup, here it is, in The Lie of the Emancipator:

"What exactly was the “Great Emancipator” emancipating the Negro from? From his daily bread. From the nobility of honest work. From wealthy patrons who sponsored them from cradle to grave. From clothing and shelter. And what have they done with their freedom? Why, go to Finkton, and you shall find out. No animal is born free, except the white man. And it is our burden to care for the rest of creation."

If you check the last phrase, you'll see that Comstock sees himself and the Founders as guides to the "lower people." It has more to do with exceptionalism than racism, and even today in a similar fashion the US government fancy themselves as the police of the world (or whatever bullshit they like to say in international diplomacy). Anyway (French rant aside) that quote you brought does not much describe the Order of the Raven but Comstock's religion in general. The zealots are way more hardcore than the regular Founders and don't hesitate to treat colored people, Irish and else as animals (feeding them to crows, imprisoning them in cages and leaving them to rot). There's probably a better quote to describe them in the game, but I doubt that as they were not much used in-game apart from this location and their appearance as enemies. Pauolo (talk) 13:28, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Death by Crows?

The scene where Booker is breaking open a door a seems a man attacked by the crows and "killed". If you look closely, when you get into the room he still seems to be moving or at least breathing. Maybe it's just on my system though. sm --Solarmech (talk) 11:25, January 20, 2016 (UTC)

I went back and checked and you appear to be right, he does move! However, I don't know if this was intentional as Comstock's corpse moves as well (though he has parts of his upper body in water so that might have something to do with it). Other copses of characters like Fink and Fitzroy does not move and neither does any random civilian's corpse so I'm not sure what the intention of this was. Perhaps the developers thought the gory brutal scene would have been to much for some players if the man would have died after The Birds?

--Shacob (talk) 14:59, February 12, 2016 (UTC)