Talk:Fontaine Futuristics (Business)

Little Ghouls wandering the streets, yet ??

Is it clear that the Little Sisters 'gathering' started under Fontaine?  The Big Daddy stuff seemed to come later (under Ryan managment) and back in 'normal' Rapture there shouldnt have been so many bodies to make it worthwhile.  The 'little girls' symbionts would still be the source of the 20-30X as much raw ADAM, versus direct from Sea Slugs and would be 'warehoused'/'farmed' in the orphanages...

Testxyz (talk) 00:35, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

What you describe, the gathering starting under Ryan during the war, is what is described in the Bioshock: Rapture novel, but its place in canon is dubious. Ravenfirelight (talk) 00:39, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

The gathering couldn't have started before Delta because Alpha Series weren't stable, and he was put in functions near the end of 1958 and under Ryan's management. A quick look through the concerned pages would have answered the question.

Pauolo (talk) 01:04, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

The 'gathering' might have been done with the LS wandering around on their own (wasnt there a Audio Diary mentioning how they (LS) were being attacked (before BD were created - thus why BD were created) ) Testxyz (talk) 01:37, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Then those Sisters in line in the trailer of Burial at Sea would pretty much explain it, but yes indeed there was a diary saying that, one of Suchong's or more possibly Alexander's.

Pauolo (talk) 08:23, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Kidnappings

"When Andrew Ryan took control of the business, the kidnapping of little girls to create the Little Sisters started,"

Are we sure when this started ?   With Fontaine's ethics and a great demand for ADAM (and potential money in his pocket) its possible some 'kidnappings' were going on for a long time before Ryan had control of Fontaine Futuristics (and all the rest of Fontaines holdings).    You might wonder how many parents would voluntarily surrender their child to an orphanage no matter how bad their situation got.

Also what was the date of Eleanor's "being sold" (Poole) to eventually become a Little Sister (evidence she was in one of the orphanages - one at Sirens Alley) well in time for Kashmir/Delta (and the Protectors activated/perfected) ??

Seems a bit tight timewise for all that to happen between September 12, 1958 (Fonatine dies in shootout and some time later Fontaines stuff transfering control)  and Dec 31 1958 (Kashmir incident with Eleanor already a Little Sister 'on the street' with a working BD).    3 1/2 months for all of that to be accomplished??

Testxyz (talk) 07:38, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Eleanor could have been brought to the orphanage prior to Fontaine's death in september. The converted Sisters were probably kept at Fontaine Futuristics so that would explain the time gap. It would have helped if the diaries were dated like voxophones (which will probably be the case in Burial at Sea. Still even if it's uncanon on several parts, the novel helps situate such events in Rapture's timeline. I would advise you read it if you can.

Now for the kidnappings, nothing indicates if Fontaine did some in order to get girls for the Gatherer Program, I think the orphanage was working well enough for that, mainly because Rapture was already in crisis before the Civil War.

Pauolo (talk) 08:30, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

The time gap in my opinion is more about too many things  (like major technical developments) happening in companies just seized and turned-upside-down by management changes/etc and then producing results (gatherer trained LS and BD) in just a few months  (in anything slightly real it would have taken more than that long to vet all the FF employees and reorganize/get-a-grip-on operations, let alone start whole new projects)

I read the Novel a while ago.  Some say it shouldnt be used as Canon, but it fills in stuff and largely adheres to to game story lines.   Didnt the 'message' from Eleanor say she was 'sold' to  Fontaines operation - which would mean they were upto buying 'kidnapped' girls or paying parents for their own children.  Again not sure if that was before or after Fontaines demise (the demand for ADAM was so great they had to go to 'gathering later, so earlier its not unlikely more LS producing ADAM directly was also sought - hence likely kidnappings by/for Fontaine-run company).  

The illogical thing was supposedly having Ryan condone it, though using already existing (Fontaine-created) LS  somehow might be less problematic philosophically for him.  Getting new ones under Ryan may not have even been policy and we dont have any hard numbers of those. (The book's event of the kidnapping of kid right next to McDonaghs was a bit over-fabricated/contrived, with Ryan'ssecurity around and in a largely restrictred area and such.)

The  game makes it sound like everything was relatively fine in Rapture before the Kashmir incident happened (otherwise why so upbeat if there was constant murder in the streets and the resulting effect that had on the economy). Testxyz (talk) 11:29, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Though the transition between Fontaine Futuristics and Ryan Industries is never really detailed, my opinion on this is that once the Protector/Gatherer Program was a success (which is after Suchong's death sometimes before the end of 1958), Ryan deported the production of ADAM related products (including Bouncers/Rosies and Little Sisters) to Point Prometheus, which could have housed another lab under Fontaine's company (the Fontaine Futuristics Genetic Research Dpt.). Such transition would have not taken too long since Prometheus had all the space required to relocate the whole operation, even if it meant converting the Memorial Museum into Proving Grounds. However, it wasn't an easy one as Suchong suggests it, mostly because Ryan was less inclined to increase the budget on research than Fontaine was, forcing him to use his own clinic in Apollo Square to test on unaware citizens (which leaded him to a dreadful death).

I agree that the novel is rushed on many points, mostly due to the forced inclusion of BioShock 2 related story elements, but it still gives a look at how the situation evolved after the foundation of Rapture, something the first game fails at showing as opposed to its sequel (the role of Sofia Lamb in this society, Pauper's Drop,...). Ryan's hate of collectivism and altruism had many citizens live a miserable life, and those who wished to go back to the surface for a better living were forever stuck in Rapture due to its secrecy.

I think Ryan was initially against the abduction, as he was first against the control of Splicers through pheromones. As the Civil War evolved, his measures went more and more extremes, from forcing low-class citizens to give their daughters to the city (Masha Lutz) to closing its eyes on a kidnapping ring (which will probably be revealed to us in Burial at Sea), even making the low-class Apollo District into a ghetto to cast all of his opponents. Then ADAM became more than a business to him, it was the only for him to save his city from Atlas, if not setting its auto-destruction from the Central Control at Hephaestus.

So yes, the masquerade ball at Kashmir's was indeed a masquerade, an attempt to hide to both the high society and lower classes in which state Rapture had fallen, and it was the right moment Atlas choose to strike to set things ablaze. In the same way, Columbia as you arrive to it in Infinite seems pretty much stable during its celebration fair, but revolts and the creation started as much as 10 years ago before that. Only the weapons provided by Chen-Li could set motion to the civil war the Vox Populi was plotting.

Pauolo (talk) 14:10, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

I remember talk of conflicts in the plot lines and times  when certain things happened. Suchongs death was one with  alot of that.

All those diaries of Suchong we find in Point Promethius  (but then you cant go by where they are found as anything  really solid).   And Suchong may have worked at all the  facilities simultaneously.

Nothing says the ADAM 'farming' operations at Fontaine  Futuristic operations were shut down on Ryan's takeover or  if Point Promethius was not already in operations with that  (as well as at all the orphanages still continuing).

Possible Resolution - Suchong wasnt killed  before/at-the-time Delta was bonded to Eleanor, but much  later by someone else (may not even have been a BD to  plunge that drill into him, heh, might not even be Suchong  we see at that spot -- they imply it was, but theres no  label "Suchong" on the body as there later was for Mark  Meltzer/Cindy).   Also, the Prometius facilities may have  already been used to produce NON-Protector BDs for the City  Maintenance, long before 1958 to already have alot of those  extensive facilities (so it all wouldnt have to be  built/accomplished in the short 3 1/2 months).

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Ryan didnt hate 'altruism' (he did it himself by expending  all his worldly wealth to build Rapture and save mankind)  but instead he hated 'false altruists' - which are people  who use 'altruism' for their own ends (as in causing/making  other people to be 'altruistic' and profiting in money or  power).  Forced collectivism destroys individual freedoms  and since (shown in the novel) members of his family were  murdered in the name of communism/collectivism, there was a  good reason for him to hate it.   

The problem is that labels are thrown about in the game(its  a blast-fest game which makes this stuff far down in  priorities to get right).   The Great Chain is a form of  Collectivism (using the basic definition), so when he says  'Collectivism' he must mean something more specific.

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Alot of the 'misery' in Rapture also seems contrived (I  attribute it more to the disruptions Fontaine/ADAM caused).

People were told how the place (Rapture) was to work before  arriving (werent they told up front they couldnt leave??).   Construction workers had to know that City construction  would eventually end, and they would need to get other jobs  (and there would have been far more (tech oriented)   machine operators than hand laborers required to build  Rapture).  People can be retrained and many did just that  (soldiers) in the real world after demobilization of WW2.   The game emphasiszes the 'whiners' but really doesnt show  the vast majority who had no problem.   And a small  minority can disrupt many things easily if allowed their  way - especially if specificly organized to be destructive  (and being empowering with ADAM was more than conventional  methodscould handle).   Ryan might not have liked 'feeding  parasites', but he didnt stop Fontaine or LAmb (and  probably many others) from doing so.

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The not-letting-people-leave is problematic (and he never  really got great advice from anyone - like for having his  labs try to develop a 'memory wipe' tonic so that people  who wanted to leave could safely be allowed to).  Having so  many inappropriate people (though ADAM would severely test  OUR society too) meant he didnt have good vetting of those  allowed to come to Rapture.

Again, Masha Lutz wasnt 'given' but was kidnapped, and by  who isnt mentioned other than she wound up a LS (nothing  says it was policy of Ryan and not instead corrupt  underlings OR even a whole seperate set of 'bootleggers'  (were all BDs controlled by the City ??? or the bootleggers  took advantage of the BDs behavior to help ANY LS - thats a  neat idea for a short story).

To save Rapture, Ryan could rationalize use of Little  Sisters (moreso the ones already existing).  New ones he  probably wouldnt like/want, and possibly (officially from  him) the 'gathering' was a program to increase ADAM  production without requiring new Little Sisters.   Unfortunately Ryan could NOT run everything himself and many of  Fontaines 'ethicly-challenged' employees were still around  (maybe if Ryan had more time he would have weeded them out  ??)

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Apollo Square was closed off and used to contain Atlas's  supporters who were going around murdering  Constable/Citizens and disrupting the City's infrastructure  as part of their 'rebellion' (remember they werent just  'Ryans Opponents', they were 'Raptures'...).     We did not  see "corpses piled like cordwood" in Apollo Square there so  it wasnt a 'deathcamp' and was largely empty by the time we  saw it (Pheromone removed the need to contain any longer  ??)  Pictures of missing persons on the walls implies, but  nothing says those people were killed by Ryan (whose  interest ids NOT killing off Raptures population and his  Pheromone solution eliminated the need).  Nobody complains  of mass executions (which the game authors would certainly  have included in their painting Ryan as 'the bad guy').

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Morale IS an important thing so the Kashmir Ball would be  important as a means of restoring confidence to the City.   Remember that Rapture had already weathered/recovered from   a large economic downturn years previously.   I dont  remember if 'Altas' already was a known 'rebel' before that  incident, but if he was, he might have been seen as a minor  problem, instead of unexpectedly actually being someone with Fontaine's  resources (ADAM stockpile in particular to use as a  weapon).  Otherwise the conventional methods Ryan was using  to restore order probably would have worked.

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We shall have to see what the Buried at Sea story lines  show.  Remember though that OUR Rapture does NOT have to be  the same one in this 'Infinite-ized' version.  So it  probably will be pointless to call anything in it 'canon'  no matter how much is consistant (or seems consistant) and  what they make (hugely?) different. Testxyz (talk) 23:51, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Well Suchong is the main problem here as both games are contradicting themselves on the dates. The first game tends to show that he was killed during the Civil War (probably before the lockdown of Apollo Square) when Alexander in the sequel suggests he was killed before Delta was successfully bonded to Eleanor. However, I can assure you that he was pinned down in his clinic by a BD, according to one of Sullivan's quotes from the multiplayer game of Bio2 (all of its story elements seem to be canon to the first game, as they never contradict it).

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Now about FF and Point Prometheus, as I said it was my own opinion, which I base from Ryan saying the FF building had been condemned, and from the seized crates at the train station of the facility and under the broken glass tunnel. However, you did point out something I did not realize before. It is highly possible that Failsafe Armored Escorts used to manufacture usual diving suits before producing Bouncer and Rosie suits. Also, since a Bouncer is seen operating maintenance in the first five minutes of Burial at Sea, my guess is BD were originally created to repair the city and outside works, and that Alpha Series were only manufactured for the preliminary tests of the Protector Program, which would explain a lot about the backstory of those golems.

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I see your point about altruism and you are right, I've rushed a bit my opinion of Ryan. And yes, the Great Chain is a symbol of collectivism, which can be interpreted as Rapture itself by Ryan's ideals. Hence all the "help save your city" sort of messages on PA and adds.

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You're absolutely right about how the city's society actually worked. There had been problems with the way Rapture was moving, but that's the same in any capitalist society. Problem is, the Rapture dream was mostly sold to anyone with skills, the others being more considered as mere workers and so not really worthy in Ryan's eyes, but also condemned to stay forever in the city to protect its secrecy. Those people were probably not a majority, but the tension ADAM created and the rise of addictions to the genetic material quickly made this minority grow, and the war made things worse. And as you said, he did not stopped Fontaine because he was just a mere rival in business at the time, as opposed to Lamb who directly opposed Ryan's ideals in debates and such, slowly turning the population against him. In a way, Ryan was right to have her locked up when you see to which extent she brought her philosophy to the remaining citizens, tainted by a bit of mysticism.

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Again you're right about the purpose of the Gatherer Program, which was to increase the production of ADAM (hence its reactivation by Lamb 6-7 years after Ryan's death). That makes me wonder how the situation could have evolved if McClendon had succeeded in conceiving the Robotic Little Sisters, and so gave Ryan a reason to stop the use of Little Sisters as we know them.

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Apollo Square did have gallows to execute dissidents at the centre of the district, but then was it Ryan's men who put them here or the rebels inside the district? Also its closure and rounding of dissidents mostly happened near the end of 1959 as several sources suggest, also since Atlas and his men were still able to organize raids outside for quite some time after the beginning of thewar. Still, the situation pretty much turned as a ghetto with the mass concentration of dissidents inside (gladly Porter had been falsely arrested before this). To be honest, I'd like to see how it could have looked before all those events, probably like those large residential districts for middle class, but maybe not as bad as it looks like in the first game.

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Sullivan suggested how odd Atlas came to be known right after Fontaine's death, like 3 months before the bombing. Not sure if he ever discovered the truth though. Also yes, the purpose of the Masquerade Ball was to restore confidence in the city. I said it was itself a masquerade as it did not improve anything, in fact it gave Atlas the opportunity to strike hard (something Ryan possibly realized since he did not show off and instead made a speech on TV). Ironically, the large stocks of masks were used by splicers to cover off their deformities. Somehow, it gave the feeling that time had stopped moving in Rapture since the event, in the same fashion as for the Mad Hatter, the Marsh Hare and the Dormouse stuck in an endless tea party.

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To be honest, I am a bit anxious concerning Burial at Sea and whether the storyline will be canon or not. If it's just a question of aesthetics for places such as the Kashmir Restaurant itself, I wouldn't mind. On the contrary, I would approve as I find much locations too small for their purpose in the series, hence why I prefer the multiplayer map of the Kashmir instead of the original version. Still so far in term of storyline, I'm impressed Levine was able to think of something about the demise of the remaining followers of Fontaine after his explosive (faked) end, which greatly foreshadow Apollo Square itself. I'm also eager to discover this department store, as we don't really see any in the game (Poseidon Plaza isn't one, just saying) and may act as a windows to the large variety of products Fontaine used to sell.

Pauolo (talk) 17:19, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

 - gathering "reactivation by Lamb 6-7 years after Ryan's death"  ----  of course Sophia needed RECYCLED ADAM to achieve her 'first utopian'  and no other way of achieving that was mentioned (might not have worked without LS being in the loop if they tried manually feeding dead (living??)  splicer blood to Sea Slugs )

 - Suchong - I forgot about that MP recording (I might still suggest Sullivan was taklking about a different desk and different place/time could still be possible to resolve the contradiction  - its a stretch, I know.... If the Accu-Vox was right next to the corpse would have been harder to try to evade)

 - Earlier BD (maintenance cyborgs??) - a logical use for the disposal of possibly many unfortunate results from Fontaine's ADAM experiments  (and later ADAM disease victims who just 'moved on' unnoticed (snatched off the street)  or went to Fontaines Happy Head House insane asylums...)

Masquerade Ball - confidence and morale can be critical factors and (in the book?) to have a wave of combat wielding Splicers showing how ineffective Ryans security with conventional weapons were... when they thought that was behind them with Fontaine's death (and like a terrorist act such murderous rogues could then appear anywhere and the chemical throwers used to counter them at the Fontaine shootout  cant be ready everywhere

to counter them... Its a major blow to expectations of safety and normalcy  fro every sane person in the city.

 - Kashmir map - yes the BS1 map seemed to trivial (more like it should have been an ante room/waiting lounge for the main restaurant.

 - Like Capone, Fontaine had the leverage (legal and illegal) to expand his operations into many directions.  So a 'Fontaine' department store in some other part of Rapture is not illogical.  Fontaine also lilkely didnt have any real lieutenants as he would fear a knife in the back and takeover of his power.  So many of his original followers were just coerced workers (besides the horde of hyped Splicers who might have mostly been done in at the Neptune Bounty shootout).  His plan to fake his death probably let him shift alot of resources (perhaps a whole nuther smuggling operation, or worse bunch of pirates/brigands actually stealing things from the surface  to get all those supplies he (as Atlas) handed out to the poor (in the book).

 - Again bigger/fancier Rapture in BaS does not have to be the same reality- effectively they have an excuse to change anything they want (or is easy to do or they think looks better).   Even so, alot of the original stories (BS1/BS2) are vague in detail and whole new plots could be shoehorned in (original Rapture was a big place)

Testxyz (talk) 09:08, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

"In response to the disquiet the Little Sisters caused among the citizens"

When out gathering from THE MANY CORPSES LAYING IN THE STREETS...

I find this rather funny  -- disturbing little girls (with menacing walking tank bodyguards), when mass death greets the citizens at every turn...  Maybe the LS just liked walking through the better parts of town until they smelled 'an angel' wafting on the breeze, activating their conditioning.

75.36.136.179 11:51, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

Most of these pages were created a few years ago and barely changed over the years. Just point out to the paragraphs which need to be rewritten properly, that would be more helpful than sarcasms. Pauolo (talk) 12:30, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately the Audio Diaries and public announcements  actually expressed that 'disquiet' about LS , even with Ryan saying so himself in one.    It just doesnt seem to correlate with other simultaneous descriptions/story info you get in the game  (like the logic that enough bodies have to be continually laying about somewhere in parts of Rapture to even warrant a project to (pay for and) create  Gatherers  and then the  Protectors  needed for them --- Though an imaginative solution might be that it was started MUCH earlier as some  way to extract the deteriorating ADAM from an increasing numbers of dangerously insane Splicers (a partial cure or at least a way to disarm them) --  a BD 'nurse' to holddown/restrain the living splicer while the Lil Doc did her thing.

75.36.136.179 15:55, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

Gene Banks sold  ADAM ??

"by creating the Gatherer's Garden vending machines to replace the Gene Bank in selling Plasmids and Gene Tonics. "

Was this mentioned anywhere or signs on them saying they did ??   The Health Stations also apply some kind of ADAM product.

We saw lots of signs advertising the sale of Tonics and Plasmids (and "ADAM")  outside (Through windows) on the buildings,  so stores/shops did sell them (and various medical practices used them).    Of course the vending machines meant that applying the Tonic/Plasmid had to be very simple (largely automatic), versus earlier more manual application by specialists/practitioners.

75.36.137.131 17:31, March 2, 2015 (UTC)

What point are you trying to make exactly? Night at the Kashmir (talk) 21:40, March 2, 2015 (UTC)

Burial at Sea has the Gene Banks selling Plasmids, also Ryan did mention the Gatherer's Garden were new versions. I see your point, Plasmids could have been sold in retails like the Plasmid wing at Fontaine's, still nothing contradicts the idea of Fontaine Futuristics having different vending machines which, as opposed to Gatherer's Garden, were accepting money instead of ADAM to be recycled. Of course yes Gatherer's Garden could have been running on money at their launch, but nothing indicates that either. Pauolo (talk) 22:19, March 2, 2015 (UTC)

Burial at Sea CAN'T be taken litterally on this point. Consider this, BAS takes place BEFORE the new Gatherer's Garden Machines were beuilt, so it wouldn't make sense to use them as the place where where Booker gets upgrades. Instead, the gene bank is used because it's a familiar enough image to the player and it at least has something to do with consumer plasmids. I have to stongly disagree with the notions that the Gene Bank sold Plasmids or that the Gatherer's Garden was a replacement for it. This is just another case of Burial at Sea forcing the Infinite mechanics (an upgarde station that that you can possess money out of) onto BioShock's aesthetics.

Unownshipper (talk) 01:26, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

It wasn't Gene Banks (technically in BaSx) ONLY that sold ADAM products and the phraseology makes it sound exclusive   --  other sources  : stores/shops, medical supply selling to doctors, bootleggers on streetcorners (cheaper/subtandard instead of illegal, unless there was patents enforcement).

Not having Gatherers Gardens - at least gives some weight to the LS use in  Gathering (and later Protectoring BDs) being a later (Post Kashmir) development.    But then contrary  the whole tone of Marketing_Gold seems discordant to a 'civil war' situation - unless THAT adds weight to the Atlas/Rebel emergence and increasing mayhem taking some time to develop post-Kshmir (to have Ryan sound so mercantile about the GG deployments).

75.36.137.86 07:14, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

So we're not going to consider the Gene Banks as precursors to the Gatherer's Garden? I can go with upgrade machines then.

@Testxyz: I don't think Ryan meant to send Little Sisters in this diary. He's just saying that their appearance would be good as marketing image to sell genetic products, probably something like "Rapture's industrious daughters," which would be compatible to what the Little Wonders Educational Facilities showed to the public. That was also most certainly before he saw the true horror behind their condition. Pauolo (talk) 18:17, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

Its the inconsistency of Ryan previously talking like that - the GG machines themselves with the Little Sister mascots  (propagandizing his openness (?) about the Fontaine-enslaved-children  issue - but still recognizing the addiction as being a reality?  I think he already realized the ADAM problem was serious.) -- but hes talking as if its before Kashmir, as afterwards it seems wrong when worse things are happening and the economy is in shambles and public is in a panic .

GG not being there in BaS :  Credence to that idea that its the game developers shortcut/DLC-expediency  to allow that simple vending game mechanism (for player to obtain plasmids) - though how hard would it have been to have you find EVERY one of them ... hidden away (like in safes, etc..), instead of a repurposed GeneBank  (which desperate Splicers in Fontaine's would have torn apart with their bare hands to get their ADAM 'fix' ).      With all the other things they muddled in BaSx, why not have the iconic GGs again (even if early)  -- Sally after all was on walkabout with a BD already after all...

75.36.143.123 06:18, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

You see lots of out of order GG machines behind Suchong's clinic (without any explanation though) and that was in early January 1959, so I guess the writers already wanted that audio diary from Ryan to be dated from before the civil war, and so before the Kashmir restaurant. Also with the city in conflict, there would have been no time for designing the machines like that and no real use for the Little Sisters' image when they were probably already roaming the streets, even without Big Daddies. I feel some diaries of Bio1 were in contradiction with each others, that one included (or Pulling Together talking about Fontaine as if he was still alive). Btw the Gene Banks in BaS1 only sell upgrades, the Plasmids themselves have to be found and two of them are not necessary for progression. Same for BaS2 with 3 Plasmids/Vigors in option, though you have to look for upgrades (no GB in this DLC) and some are in safes. Pauolo (talk) 23:11, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

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I could see a reason Ryan  would have The Little Sister Motif - to justify (sell to the public) the idea of  weird/creepy children walking the streets "Doing it For The Benefit of All of Rapture"  (probabaly with soft-sell explanations about how the children cant be restored (so are working for their keep) and then clues about the addiction (why ADAM production couldnt stop).   (I still reject that 'Gathering' existed yet without mass mayhem and corpses existing before the Civil War was well under way)     It also can be a reminder of what crimes Fontaine had hidden - and why the operation was 'Seized' to bring it all out in the open (and the fact that Ryan inherited it). 

The Gatherer's Garden may have been rebranded (being called something else like The Gene Banks  when first deployed - if LS 'gatherers' didnt exist yet).   The LS decorations look like something that could have been added later.      Perhaps even quite a while before Fontaine was killed - his creating those machines to sell it directly (maximizing his profits) - Ryan in the audio diary Marketing Gold   is talking about the LS marketing ploy specificly 

 ('new Plasmid machine' might have meant modified/decorated to employ the children motif and additional such machines being deployed...) 

75.36.143.92 07:20, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, mass gathering doesn't seem likely before the civil war, so I imagine the Little Sisters to be sent only when a Splicer was found dead. That was the idea behind the original intro level of Bio2, though it was more a test than a regular task. Also the kidnappings (and I don't mean the remaining orphanage girls) probably occurred later during the war, when ADAM and the Little Sisters were becoming scarce. Pauolo (talk) 10:29, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

They defined the game with certain images in mind (I remember the Big Daddy and LS on the Box several years before I bought it)  so they just create stuff around it.   I think it wasnt til BS2 with the BD(Delta)+LS(Eleanor?) at Kashmir before they made/forced the 'Gathering' /Bonding   that early.

Now if I was running things, then no LS would be out on the streets (they were supposed to be too important, etc... Civil War being fought, and all),  but the Splicer corpses are brought in by the BD/others into fortified (safe) positions  (Splicer Recycling centers ...).    But then its not quite as exciting (BD fights in the halls), no corpses laying about for the 'ruins'  atmosphere, cute banter from the LS, and the wholeHarvest/Save thing (that was supposed to give you the 'moral choice') gone.  Attacking the Little Sister Fortress maybe could have been a plausible thing (BDs to the rescue) but not quite as cute a scene....

75.36.143.111 13:31, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

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