I trust you not to be making things up, but please add sources for the info on this page. It would be nice to find a news article about it, but a store page description etc. could work too. ~Gardimuer 15px-Physical_Tonic.png ʈalk } 03:22, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

canonicity Edit

Do we consider this book completely canon? Or only partially? Because it would seem like, that if we hold it in equally high regard as the game, this wiki could grow to 1.5 tiems the size of the current size.--Fijure 11:27, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

That's a good question ! It depends if the book contains a lot of descriptions and new things I think. If yes, maybe we should create a new catégorie as the Bioshock Game, Bioshock (Novel)..
That's my opinin, but we have to wait for the admin :) BioshockWays 13:31, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
As mentioned by Levine right here the novel isn't considered canon. Maybe this should be mentioned somewhere in the article? -- The Sanity Assassin 20:51, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
I read it at least 3 times now. It's partial cannon, some of it not so much, such as Bill McDonagh having a wife named Elaine and a daughter named Sophie, which for some reason he never mentions in game for some reason, so yeah. Mr Bio Shock 15px-Physical_Tonic.png 20:35, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
Some parts of the book contradict the games, and some parts are unconfirmed. However, there is no need to mention this in the article about the novel itself. Instead, we will mark info from the novel in other articles by using the Template:Novelsource. ~Gardimuer 15px-Physical_Tonic.png ʈalk } 21:10, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
    @The Sanity Assassin - I wouldn't take one flippant comment on Twitter as the be-all-and-end-all  on the subject. Bioshock is bigger than Ken Levine - Levine doesn't even consider Bioshock 2 to be 'canon'. However, Levine consulted with John Shirley  for the book and wrote an introduction for it. It was even Levine's idea to make Bill McDonagh the protagonist. So I'd say the book is pretty much canon. Maiden Ty One (talk) 21:22, September 19, 2015 (UTC) Maiden Ty One
            @Mr Bio Shock - not mentioning something does not mean it doesn't exist. There's actually no reason why McDonagh would mention Elaine or Sophie in the handful of audio diaries found in the game. Do you assume everyone you meet in life must be a single bachelor until they mention their wife or family? Maiden Ty One (talk) 21:22, September 19, 2015 (UTC)Maiden Ty One
@Gardimuer - I've played the games and read the books several times each, and I haven't noticed any contradictions between the book and the games. Rather than actually contradict the games the book's main problem is omission of certain things in the games - particularly the Burial at Sea events. I'm sure if John Shirly had written this book in 2014 instead of 2010, there would be references to Elizabeth, Booker and Columbia. Even so, the book still doesn't actually contradict any Burial at Sea details - there's just huge, gargantuan gaps of information between chapters missing. But for a licensed novel 'based on' a game, 'Rapture' is remarkably faithful and accurate to the games its based on. Maiden Ty One (talk) 21:22, September 19, 2015 (UTC)Maiden Ty One
Everyone likes to point out the 'contradictions' in the book but everyone ignores the fact that the later games took things from the book - the sexual relationship between Tenenbaum and Fontaine was entirely made up by John Shirley for the book (again, not contradicting anything, and arguably actually adding to it). In Burial at Sea: Episode 1 this sexual relationship is mentioned in one of the 'Now You Know' videos, so it would seem at least one thing has been taken from the book and put into the games, which would indicate the book is in fact 'canon' - but remember, there are a million, million worlds, with a million, million Raptures - so maybe the 'Rapture' novel takes place in one of the million other Bioshock universes. :P Maiden Ty One (talk) 21:22, September 19, 2015 (UTC)Maiden Ty One
The sexual relationship between Tenenbaum and Fontaine wasn't "entirely made up" by John Shirley, it was mentioned by the Paparazzi. If you haven't noticed any contradictions then clearly you don't pay much attention and having simply a few details similar doesn't make it canon. Night at the Kashmir (talk) 21:31, September 19, 2015 (UTC)

Icon Edit

I feel that content related to the novel should also have its own icon, as with SiTS and the games. Could someone active on the wikia come up with an icon in case we agree to implement this? --Willbachbakal 18:58, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean by it's own icon? I don't think I've seen the other pages having icons relting to what source they are from. And again, how are we going to cover the content from this book. Like the huge ammount of new characters appearing? Does they all deserve their own pages, like the characters form SiTS and the games. ANd perhaps more important: what about the new content about existing characters? Such as Ryan's flashback in the prologue, about his family when escaping Russia. And Bill McDonagh fighting in the Second World War? is that content to be merged inside the pages?--Fijure 21:45, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
Take a look at this. This is what I'm talking about. When you edit a page, you'll see there is practically always this template at the top of the article. Since the novel is a new major source of content, I think it should deserve its own place in the list. Also, to answer your second problem, I think Gardimuer came up with a very nice-looking template designed to indicate content taken from the novel, so we could just add that and add the new info under it. --Willbachbakal 01:21, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
The Games template is currently broken due to Wikia changes to page layouts. I plan to get it working again some time soon, and I also plan to create an icon for the book. ~Gardimuer 15px-Physical_Tonic.png ʈalk } 14:31, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Adding informations Edit

After waiting during the whole vacancies I finally have the book in hands (Champagne !) and I thought I will add on the wikia informations from the novel, like a timeline and a storyline. Since I heard the book was not always canon to the games' lores, I will add those informations on separate pages to avoid any confusion. Btw, maybe we should add a link to the novel's article and to Something in the Sea's article on the "BioShock Series" button, as well as a link for a "Rapture Characters" page (to be created) that will give the links for the series' characters pages so it would be easier to access them when you are navigating on pages other than the Wikia menu.

For now, the prototype timeline which will be completed later:


Pyotr Rianofski and his son Andrei flee from the Soviet Union and witness the execution of their cousin Dmitri and his wife Vassilia by the Red Guard.


August 6
United States drops an atomic bomb on the Japanese city of Hiroshima.
August 9
A second atomic bomb is dropped on the Japanese city of Nagasaki.
Undefined Date
Andrew Ryan receives from his source in the State Department reports of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and decides to start his great project.


Bill McDonagh encounters Andrew Ryan while changing the plumbing in his apartment on Park Avenue, New York City. Impressed to see in him his own ideals, Ryan offers him a job as his new building engineer.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pauolo (talkcontribs) 15:36, 2011 September 7 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~.

Bioshock: Columbia?Edit

Does anybody know has he mentioned making a book for Bioshock Infinite? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Midnight 45 (talkcontribs) 02:41, 2012 February 21 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~.

It's way too early for 2K Games to be planning something of that kind. ~Gardimuer 15px-Physical_Tonic.png ʈalk } 22:50, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

A little shocked Edit

I find it a little shocking, and a bit funny to read that Tenenbaum, and Fontaine had an affair.

─D.Ryan─ (talk) 23:12, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I was kinda weirded out by it, honestly... xD

GothLoliManda (talk) 02:48, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yea, quite desturbing, I am reading it right now... well what we heard by Paparazzi, it might be true, they sure have a history.... but still I don't se Tenenbaum as the romantic kind.

Shacob (talk) 04:03, May 16, 2014 (UTC)

Revamped: book canon? Edit

The only given argument from before that I've seen of why the book isn't considered canon is because Ken Levine hadn't read the book, even though the author said he either had a representative be the voice of Ken (Ken's consultant of sorts) or directly consulted Ken. I believe we should take Ken's word with a grain of salt since the man also doesn't consider Bioshock 2 his game, therefore wouldn't that also mean Bioshock 2 isn't canon?

My question is what exactly messes with the canon apart from mentions of Bill McDonagh's family? Because a lot of elements from the book help and helped fill in gaps or questions have had or may have. From the situation of Suchong-Alexander with the Big Daddies and Suchong's death, to discussing the prefabrication and construction (Bill notes that the metal girders couldn't be steel but some special alloy, or a mix of alloys as Ryan explains to him), among other possibilities.

The book is also filled with information of how the locations are built, how they run and what exists in them (For example, we learn from BaS that Arcadia has cabins as well as grain farms of sorts, while the book reveals that light as well as air was let in through vents above sea level via the Lighthouse and an assortment of mirrors for natural sunlight mixed with artificial light and other bits of info like an approx. date when people had to start paying to get into Arcadia).

I just wanted to bring up this topic again since I've seen people take elements from the book to help explain discrepencies on the talk pages. Tricksteroffools (talk) 01:56, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

Well yes, Ken has shown some dislike for both the book and Bio2

Here's what he think about Bio2:

And I believe he said something on Twitter about the book but I can't find it. But I found I page telling that he wrote a small bit of it.

Yes there's A LOT of interesting and new info in the book (I'm reading it right now). Origion of several characters and you can even read what happen in the Kashmir on new year's eve.

But sence the book was released things has happen, like Minervas Den and Burial at Sea that is not included in the book.

So I don't know, I really wan't it to be canon, But I can't over look some things...

Shacob (talk) 02:43, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

Canon or not? Add this info in the article! Edit

I'm confused by now. Is the book canon, secondary canon, or not at all canon? How does this wiki see the issue? All book-related entries mention that it is not certified canon, but the main page to the book is silent on the issue. Even if the status is still undecided, mention that on the article page. [b]PERSONALLY,[/b] I'd say it should be considered canon where it doesn't contradict the game, or where the contradiction makes more sense.

Unfortunately, the book makes too many serious contradictions from the game to be counted as canon. Ken Levine has formally declared it non-canon. This site, as the BioShock Wiki, documents the information from the book here, but summarily asserts that it doesn't impact the canon narrative in any way.

Unownshipper (talk) 01:03, April 28, 2015 (UTC)
There seems to be a bit of double-talk here. Ken Levine said in a 2009 interview that he was working on a novel with John Shirley.
"I'm working on the BioShock novel being done, with a writer named John Shirley, and I'm going to just sort of peek my nose in and write the prologue and the epilogue of that. And I'm sitting down to write it, and it's like, 'Oh! I can just write about Tenenbaum! I can just say what she's saying! And she can talk! And the audience may not go off and, like, shoot her in the head while she's saying it!'"
And then he says that he hasn't read it in 2011.
"@ralpharend since i haven't read it, would have to say no." UpgradeTech (talk) 19:36, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
I think I remember both statement, and they don't help. I still don't see Ken Levine working on the book apart from a giving inspirations since he was working on Infinite at that time. Pauolo (talk) 20:54, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately the game(s) make too many 'serious contradictions from the game to be.
It was an authorized Novel about the game's setting (yes/no/in what way 'authoriized' - oversite on content? guidelined?, etc...)   It filled-in/explained/elaborated some of the plot issues following that author's take (interpretation) on what he saw in the game (assuming he played it).
Simplest is to allow details mentioned in the book annotated as coming from the Novel.  Assumptions based on anything should be avoided ("Just the facts mam") particularly when there are so many contradictions. 01:07, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

We've differentiated contents from the games and the books so far on pages such as Andrew Ryan, Bill McDonagh, and a few others. We could add more details from the book too, I wrote some notes myself when I read it with page numbers. I just need to find that paper. Pauolo (talk) 14:46, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

You (or anyone for that matter) are more than welcome to add details from the book on the site so long as it's added within the { {Novelsource} } borders so as to clearly define that said information comes from the book. As I've said before, it's our duty and our pleasure to include all information concerning anything related to the BioShock series on this Wikia, but John Shirley's work is tantamount to published fan fiction (sorry, that's just how it is) and it was decided a LONG while ago to treat details from that novel as non-canon, at least here on this site.

Unownshipper (talk) 22:32, May 11, 2015 (UTC)
If the criteria for not being 'Canon' is contraditions then ALL the subsequent games (and th e novel) would then have to be declared 'NOT CANON"  (including Ken Levines 'Its Prime' statement about the ending scene bit in Infinite BS). 21:26, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

List of known contradictions?Edit

This should have been included long ago as it presents a stronger case for regarding the book's status on canon.

There have only been piecemeal mentions on various pages and would present a more cohesive structure when consolidated onto one page.

Ideally, this list could contain a chapter/page number for each point or a direct quote. If you don't have a copy on you, the Google Books version is somewhat searchable.

The canon responses should be sourced and referenced by quotes or audio diaries, etc.

To be clear, this should not include contradiction by omission as a result of the author expanding and giving further detail.

Only things that clearly contradict things established from the games (particularly Bioshock 1 and 2) should be considered and help to clear up speculation and unverified comments.

For example, while the book says that Andrew Ryan strangled Jasmine Jolene, it is only "implied" that she died a different way in the game.

UpgradeTech (talk) 05:21, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

Might as well start it off with a big one. In Burial at Sea - Episode 2 Atlas is imprisoned in Fontaine's Department store. In the novel, Atlas in active in Rapture and clearly was not imprisoned in Fontaine's. Page 248 starts off with Diane McClintock in the Hall of the Future heading towards Pauper's Drop to see Atlas. No exact date is given on it, but it's shortly before Christmas as on page 353 it's Christmas Eve.

As for how Jasmine Jolene died, strangling a person does not produce a large amount of blood. But there is a huge amount of blood at the scene of Jasmine's murder, as well as bloody footprints leading out of the room. So what is seen in the game contradicts the novel.

Also I feel I must point out a problem. It's possible that Ken Levine may not consider the events of Bioshock 2 as part of the canon. He uses some things (names, artwork) from it in Burial at Sea, but there is no reference to any of the *characters* from the game even though they should be there. And one of the mentions is a contradiction of it's portrayal in BS2. Levine has not said BS2 *isn't* canon mind you, but he has not said it was either when asked, he rather dodged the question. So there might be a problem of there are going to be different ideas on what is canon. sm --Solarmech (talk) 09:08, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

I have something along the lines of this. I'm simulating using the references tag:
Novel Note(s)
Andrew Ryan strangles Jasmine Jolene by using his hands to choke her neck.[1] Jasmine Jolene's room in Eve's Garden shows a large amount of blood and bloody footprints. This along with a bloody section of pipe implies a far messier death.
Diane McClintock stops by Pauper's Drop in the Fishbowl Diner and observes Atlas taking charge of a bread line.[2] Though no exact date is given, two sections later it is shown to be Christmas Eve, 1958. [3] It was later established in the 2013 DLC for BioShock Infinite Burial at Sea that Ryan had imprisoned Atlas and his thugs in the sunken Fontaine's Department Store sometime between Fontaine's death in September 1958 [4] and early December [5].

1. p.396

2. p.348-352

3. p.353

4. BioShock Loading Screen Quotes "Ryan takes down smuggling operation... Fontaine and thugs killed in fiery shootout!" - Headline, Rapture Standard, 9/12/58

5. Left Behind

I would hesitate about pointing out inconsistencies with Burial at Sea. Among other reasons, the most pertinent would be that the book was written well before the release of Burial at Sea.
There must surely be other obvious ones. Most of the objections raised involve contradiction by omission. Could you please elaborate on the character from BS2? UpgradeTech (talk) 20:07, October 21, 2015 (UTC)
From what I remember, Roland Wallace is taken by Ryan's men at the end of the novel (after the 1958 New Year's Eve riots) to be experimented on by Suchong. It referenced the Enrage Trial, however in this audio diary Suchong works for Fontaine in developing the Plasmid, not Ryan, so it could not take place in 1959.
Another one: Suchong is alive in 1959, contradicting BioShock 2 but not BioShock (which hinted his death during the war, not before).
Pauolo (talk) 20:55, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

I do like your idea UpgradeTech as it is a great way to point out and "store" differences in the game and book. I'd like to add an interesting detail about the Enrage plasmid as well. Elizabeth comes across a enlarged newspaper article about Suchong in the Silverfin Restaurant during Burial at Sea ep2. In the article it reads:

"A Rapture man through and through, Dr. Suchong switched frequently to whichever employer valued his work the most, contracting out to Fontaine Futuristics (where he helped expand their Plasmid line with the popular Enrage and Telekinesis) and many more before his recent exclusive agree-ment with Ryan Industries."

Kure-All Enrage Site

Quite a scene.

This indicates that Enrage was made before the department store was made in to a prison and before the new years eve riots a.k.a. before 1959. This annoys me a lot as I don't see how Kure-All would be left in that condition before the civil war. Plus what logical use would Enrage have before the war? Incinerate! to light your cigar and even Insect Swarm to pollinate flowers but I can't wrap my mind around what use Enrage could have had.
Enrage: "Make your in-laws mad on someone else!" (?)

--Shacob (talk) 21:16, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

I just noticed something I added to the "Revamped: book canon?" section a while ago and forgot about until now. Ken Levine's thoughts on BioShock 2's canon-status:

--Shacob (talk) 21:20, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

Crap, lost a big long post. :( Will redo later. And the link to videogamer/xbox360 isn't working at the moment. sm --Solarmech (talk) 21:29, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

Not a character, but a place. Dionysus Park has a Public Address Announcement about it in BaS Part 1.
"Don't settle for tiny little fruits and vegetables. We scientifically boosted our harvests, so a single banana can feed a family of four! Come see what we mean, at the farmer's market in Dionysus Park: because bigger is better."
In Bioshock 2 Dionysus Park is an artist’s retreat/entertainment area run by Lamb. It is not dedicated to growing food and we certainly do not see a Farmer’s Market there.
Also as the link that Shacob posted Levine does not consider BS2 part of his vision.
“Uhm… Yeah, you know. It's not something we worked on and it's not something we had any involvement in. But we're either all in or all out. I understand the question but in terms of 'canon', for me, it's all kind of made up. I can't say [BioShock 2] is absolutely my vision of a BioShock game, because I didn't make it.”
If a game can’t make it I don’t see how a novel even more removed can make it. BUT that being said, he doesn’t go and really say BS2 is NOT canon either. As far as I can see he is leaving the question of BS2 (and the novel?) being canon up to the player. And there are good reasons for him doing so. Levine did like some things about BS2 and he loved Minerva’s Den. The fact he did use stuff from BS2 in BaS shows he doesn’t dismiss it. My opinion is that he didn’t like some parts of it, likely the story line. Also dumping on BS2 likely would not make 2K happy. Lastly Levine has a habit of letting the player decide what is going on, so him not saying much is SOP for him.
Of course this makes it a PITA for people working on the wiki because the question of canon is up in the air.
On a side note, it’s possible that the BSI novel may answer questions about BS2 and the Rapture novel being canon. Of course it may not or it could even make things worse (we don’t know yet). But since the BSI novel is being written by a former IG writer (Joe Fielder) who helped write BSI and BaS and Ken Levine is active with it (He has already read the first draft) there shouldn’t much question about it being canon at least. sm

Ok, I have this so far:

Novel Note(s)
Andrew Ryan strangles Jasmine Jolene by using his hands to choke her neck.[1] Jasmine Jolene's room in Eve's Garden shows a large amount of blood and bloody footprints. This along with a bloody section of pipe implies a far messier death.
Diane McClintock stops by Pauper's Drop in the Fishbowl Diner and observes Atlas taking charge of a bread line.[2] Though no exact date is given, two sections later it is shown to be Christmas Eve, 1958. [3] It was later established in the 2013 DLC for BioShock Infinite Burial at Sea that Ryan had imprisoned Atlas and his thugs in the sunken Fontaine's Department Store sometime between Fontaine's death in September 1958 [4] and early December [5].
Roland Wallace is captured and taken by Ryan's men to Dr. Yi Suchong, sometime in 1959.[6] Suchong's experiment on Wallace is detailed in the Enrage Trial audio diary. However, it is established that Suchong was still working for Fontaine Futuristics. Wallace also seems friendly and affable.
The novel states that Suchong is alive in 1959.[7] In BioShock, the last audio diary made before his death [8] states that he was still alive and working for Ryan Industries sometime during the Rapture Civil War.

In BioShock 2 Gilbert Alexander reveals that Suchong had died at some point in the past, and his work was used to create the Alpha Series, the first successful candidate being Subject Delta. Delta is seen wandering the halls during New Year's Eve 1958 in the beginning of BioShock 2.

It was later established in the 2013 DLC for BioShock Infinite, Burial at Sea - Episode 2, that Suchong was still alive in 1959 after the 1958 New Year's Eve Riots.

1. p.396

2. p.348-352

3. p.353

4. BioShock Loading Screen Quotes "Ryan takes down smuggling operation... Fontaine and thugs killed in fiery shootout!" - Headline, Rapture Standard, 9/12/58

5. Left Behind

6. p.426-427


8. Protection Bond

The wikia is meant to present information impartially and all details and explanations on the article pages should be sourced and referenced. Most people don't read the talk pages, but putting comment sections on the article pages, like on other wikias, looks really unprofessional.

Regarding Dionysus Park, since it deals with BS2 and BaS, it is not germane to the discussion of the novel and is outside of its scope.

So far, there are four contradictions found in the novel. UpgradeTech (talk) 19:04, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

- If I find in the novel that DP is listed as an artists retreat? Then would it count then as you have other BaS references up there?

No question on this one though. Audio Log Stopping Ryan by Bill McDonagh This is clearly after the Civil Wars started and right before Bill tried to kill Ryan. I never killed a man, let alone a mate. But this is what things come to. I don't know if killing Mr. Ryan will stop the war, but I know it won't stop while that man breathes. I love Mr. Ryan. But I love Rapture. If I have to kill one to save the other, so be it.

Novel Page 239. During the raid in 1958 to take down Fontaine. The novel clearly shows Bill killing someone. "A splicer turned from its victim and slashed at Bill but he had the tommy gun ready and squeezed off a quick up-angled burst, blowing the top of splicer's head off."

sm --Solarmech (talk) 20:04, October 22, 2015 (UTC) -

Dionysus Park is mostly described as a "retreat" for therapeutic art on p. 248. I don't see anything directly suggesting that it could not have a farmer's market and again, much has been closed off. There is more discussion on the Dionysus Park talk page regarding Lamb's Garden. If anything, it is a contradiction by omission which isn't very substantial.
Also oddly, some of your page numbers are mixed up. The Bill quote is from p. 329 and the Diane encounter is on p. 348
Is there a more definitive date for Stopping Ryan? The Rapture Civil War page says that while New Year's Day in 1959 is a landmark date, the civil war was evident, regarding ADAM and smuggling, for some time even before Fontaine's "death" in September 1958.
Interestingly, the diary moment is documented on p.399, but the quote omits the first line. However, it states he was apparently drunk when recording and it later states that he had erased the tape, so it's not clear if it's even the same recording (unless you want to argue that Bill can hold his liquor better than Diane). UpgradeTech (talk) 21:06, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
Well if Bill had erased the tape, it wouldn't have been on his corpse nailed to the wall outside Ryan's door. So either it's a different tape, author error or a deliberate change by the author for plot purposes (To be able to out Bill into combat). I favor it's was a deliberate change. The fact that the tape was still on Bill's dead body points it to being made shortly before his death. No reason to have a tape you made months ago still on you, but you would likely have a tape you made very recently.
While the Civil War might have been evident at the end of 1958, it hadn't started yet. Few people would say that WWII *in Europe* started when Germany took back the Sudetenland, though it was evident to some people what was going on. The date everyone gives is 1939 when Poland was invaded. Same thing with the Rapture Civil War, it starting in 1959 with the bombing. The smuggling and everything else where just precursors, small stuff. Bill would not have made that tape before things so bad he felt he had no other choice other than to kill Ryan. That kind of desperation only comes about when the city was being destroyed before your eyes. Sorry got the 2 and 3 inverted on the Bill killing the splicer. And must have hit 2 instead of 3 for the Diane page. sm --Solarmech (talk) 21:51, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
Ok, that appears to be it. Unless there's anything more to add. UpgradeTech (talk) 04:08, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

I think I found two more, regarding Incinerate! and Telekinesis. On page 201, in 1954, Ryan shows a copy o Rapture Tribune to Bill McDonagh and Sullivan where Fontaine Futuristics Advertises a new product called Plasmids, featuring Incinerate! Later in 1955, page 243, Ruben Greavy is killed by a telekinetic splicer outside Fontaine's Home for the Poor]]. We know, thanks to the advertisements that both these Plasmids where produced by Ryan Industries. I have only read to this part so I'm not sure if anything happens that turns these Plasmids over to RI. However in Burial at Sea - Episode 2 we find poster for Incinerate and Telekinesis in the Housewares department, with the label: "Coming Soon" over them. As we know most of BaS happens on December 31, 1958 and I find it very unlikely that they would have advertisements up from 1954-55.

--Shacob (talk) 20:50, October 24, 2015 (UTC)

I'm a little muddled on the timeline. Presumably Fontaine Futuristics manufactured and advertised Plasmids. When Fontaine was "killed" in September 1958, stewardship of the company and its Plasmids transferred to Ryan Industries. The Department Store was sunk shortly afterwards. Ryan Industries thus starts advertising Plasmids.
Yet the posters for Incinerate! Coming Soon, Hypnotize Big Daddy, and Peeping Tom in BaS show that the plasmids were manufactured by Ryan Industries. So Ryan was producing plasmids shortly after Fontaine's death in September, started selling them in the department store, and later changed his mind and sunk the department store, sometime before December. Yet, the bathysphere advertisements still mention Fontaine Furturistics.UpgradeTech (talk) 21:38, October 24, 2015 (UTC)
I do think that Shacob found an inconsistency. Here's how I look at it. Ryan started producing Plasmids as soon as he took over Fontaine Futuristics. All he did was stick new labels on everything. Fontaine Must Go hints at Ryan’s jealousy of Fontiane’s success with Plasmids and that he wanted them for himself. Ryan not only continued production he also invested in the creation of new plasmids and started phasing out older versions such as all the drinkable ones like Devil’s Kiss. One reason in phasing out drinkables is the huge cost in ADAM to make them. So with Devil’s Kiss being discontinued he needed a replacement for it and that was Incinerate! BaS does make it clear that these Plasmids were not around when the novel said they were.
As for why we see posters and such are found with Fontaine’s name on them, that can be explained in two ways. Bioshock has a lot of “frozen past” in it. Things have remained the same even though a year or more has passed when logically they should not be there. Take Jasmine’s body. Why the heck is it still there more than a year after her death? Ryan should have had it removed a long time before and even if he didn’t, the smell would cause someone to dispose of it before long. But finding Jasmine’s body was important for the storyline, so the player found it. Other some things however can be explained by Ryan being a Cheap Son of a Bitch and it wasn’t worth the effort to replace some of the posters or tear them down. In the case of the Spheres, Ryan may not have wanted the Sphere business and was shutting it down. And why take down the posters in a store that would soon be cut off from Rapture? Heck even in Rapture we see stuff with Fontaine’s name still on it and a “Closed” sign just put over it. sm (Missed sig) --Solarmech (talk) 18:51, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
Can you point out where the inconsistency is?
All the plasmid advertising posters I've found from BaS do not mention Fontaine Futuristics, only Ryan Industries.
Ryan Industries must have hit the ground running with the plasmid business before the store was sunk just a month or so later. This would be true even if there are still some plasmid posters with Fontaine Futuristics.
Product Recall (even with its inconsistent recording date) says that injectable plasmids like Incinerate! and Telekinesis were still on the books. It implies that they were mothballed when the drinkable plasmids came out. It would be reasonable to assume that Ryan Industries knew about injectable plasmids and were working on the transition at the time of BaS. UpgradeTech (talk) 17:11, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
According to Testing Telekinesis, Telekinesis plasmid was already existed before 1959 ~ 1960. But, why telekinesis poster in BaS is labeled with 'Coming Soon'? I think Irrational Games just tried to show crude missing links between Burial at Sea and Bioshock 1. Pawn of Atlas (talk) 17:46, October 25, 2015 (UTC)


Suchong's audio diary indicates that he is doing it for FF. Yet all the posters for Telekinesis in Bioshock are for RI. Again, Product Recall says that injectable plasmids were put on ice. FF was trying to make drinkable equivalents e.g. Devil's Kiss/Incinerate!, but they went back to the tried and true injectables.
Since the Coming Soon poster for Telekinesis is still labeled for Ryan Industries, it is likely that RI was working on the transition back to the injectables. UpgradeTech (talk) 17:55, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
Well if something had been mothballed and brought back would you have "Coming Soon" posters for it? I would think that "Returned by Popular Demand" would be a better fit advertising wise. Here is a scenario that I thinks works better (Your opinion may be different). Suching was working on TK and Incinerate! (along with others) for Fontaine but hadn't quite finished when Ryan took over. It seems that Suchong was VERY quickly grabbed by Ryan and then finished the projects he had going. sm --Solarmech (talk) 18:51, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

I am admittedly having trouble reconciling dates about when Plasmids rolled out.

Event Date (if known) Sources
Telekinesis testing (for Fontaine Futuristics) none (Trial 23) Testing Telekinesis
Enrage testing none (Trial 44) Enrage Trial
Electrobolt and Incinerate advertised by Fontaine Futuristics 1954 Novel, p. 201
Splicer uses Telekinesis 1955 Novel, p. 243
Fontaine "killed" September 12, 1958 BioShock Loading Screen Quotes
Ryan nationalizes Fontaine Futuristics, takes over plasmid business as

Ryan Industries

none Ryan Takes F Futuristics
Ryan hires Suchong October 17, 1958 Offer of Employment
Suchong makes drinkable plasmids October 20, 1958 Observation 33
Old Man Winter advertised by Ryan Industries, only makes dry ice "one month" prior to November 10, 1958 False Advertising
Frank Fontaine? contacts Suchong about drinkable vs. injectable plasmids November 1, 1958 Product Recall
Fontaine's Department store sunk prior to December 2, 1958 Left Behind
PSA for drinkable plasmids still airs events of BaS Burial at Sea Public Address Announcements
New Year's Riots at Kashmir December 31 1959 - January 1, 1959 New Year's Eve Alone
Suchong creates Vita Chamber for Ryan Industries none The Vita Chamber
BaS Ep. 2 has working model in Jan. 1959
Suchong dies while testing Big Daddy for Ryan Industries several contradictions, see above Protection Bond

By the PSA, injectable plasmids have been around for a while.

The waiter at Le Temps Perdu can be seen teleporting, using fire from his fingertips, and refreshing a glass with "ice". This is interesting on whether it is Old Man Winter and dry ice or Winter Blast and regular ice.

Dry ice will sink to the bottom of a glass of alcohol or water and will bubble profusely and emit "fog". Regular ice floats in water, but sinks in alcohol.

The waiter asks "Want some ice?" and the ice effect does not bubble. Since the ice floats on the drink, the lady is drinking a glass of water, not alcohol. I would propose that this is regular ice, Winter Blast, and an injectable plasmid as opposed to dry ice, Old Man Winter, and drinkable.

So, prior to Burial at Sea, injectable plasmids were perfected and shipping for quite some time before Suchong "discovered" drinkable plasmids and tried to create the counterparts with mixed success.

The odd part is the Fontaine audio diary regarding the matter when Suchong was supposed to be working for Ryan and after the shootout in September. Perhaps it got lost in the pneumo tube? In any case, Product Recall and Observation 33 imply that injectables were already a profitable enterprise before drinkables.

Ryan Industries was on its way to proceed with the drinkable plasmids by inserting its name in Old Man Winter and Devil's Kiss jingles, but since the Bucking Bronco jingle still mentions Fontaine Futuristics, the transfer was not complete. So Ryan Industries switches back to injectables by resurrecting Incinerate and Telekinesis "Coming Soon by Ryan Industries".

There doesn't seem to be hard evidence in BaS stating that Incinerate and Telekinesis (mentioned as existing in the mid 50s in the novel) were not yet invented by Fontaine Futuristics. BaS seems to be caught in the transfer between injectable plasmid production by FF -> RI takes over -> Suchong invents drinkables -> RI starts to market drinkables -> drinkables abandoned UpgradeTech (talk) 21:01, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

Here's three more things that might count as contradictions:

  • Sullivan's Suicide. In the novel Sullivan sends Ryan a suicide note, and thus it's presumed he went through with it, as he is not seen again (as far as I remember). In BioShock, we found a Ducky corpse in Neptune's Bounty, with his audio diary on it. There is bullet holes next to him, which indicates that he was murdered. Now, we don't know for sure this was Sullivan, as there is always a "what if", but I think it's pretty clear it's him. Of course he could have been killed before he did it, but I think that's a little far-fetched.
Anna Culpepper's Corpse
  • Anna Culpepper's Murder. In the novel, Sullivan drowns her by pushing her underwater in the bathtub. While in BioShock, we see loots of blood on Culpepper's corpse.
  • Masha Lutz is spelled "Mascha" in the novel. This is obviously a spelling mistake, so I'm not 100% sure it counts...


--Shacob (talk) 21:31, January 17, 2016 (UTC)

  • Sullivan's suicide (p. 392) - The identification of Sullivan's corpse has always been contentious. The corpse on the body is Picked Up Timmy H. and the last sentence indicates a different recipient. The Timmy H. Interrogation shows that Sullivan still relished the interrogation process against smugglers. If this is his corpse, Sullivan is introduced and killed off in Neptune's Bounty.
However, he reappears again in Fort Frolic and Olympus Heights with more audio diaries. They demonstrate his change of heart, showing distaste for his job. The Timmy H. interrogation must have taken place before Culpepper based on the significant change of attitude.
Did Sullivan return to bludgeon her in the bathtub while she was fully clothed? Did he prop up her body afterwards? Again it's not very clear either way.

fair enough, you're obviously right. Keeping this in mind, I think it's a good idea to discuss any supposed contradictions here before adding them to the main page.

--Shacob (talk) 17:00, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

I believe I might have find one: In-game Sander Cohen's Why Even Ask? is advertised on the radio in BioShock (1960) and Burial at Sea - Episode 1 (1958): "Can anyone ever make you feel like Sander Cohen can? Rapture's most beloved musical artist returns with "Why Even Ask?", his greatest album yet. Songs of love, songs of joy, songs of passion. Buy "Why Even Ask?" and invite Sander Cohen into your home, today." This clearly indicates that this is a new album, as well as the advertising in Burial at Sea. I can see how the advertisement was left running during the war. However in the book, chapter 13, Cohen was listening to the advertisement the same day it was going up on the PA, to promote his new album, in 1956, two years before Burial at Sea. I don't see how the advertisement would be running for two years with the label "returns" in it and didn't Cohen release anything new during those years?

--Shacob (talk) 18:58, March 7, 2017 (UTC)

Edit: Also, during the end of the book, Bill looks out from a window in the lighthouse, seeing his wife and dughter leave in a vessel and as I recall, there are no windows in the lighthouse.

Shacob (talk) 19:21, March 7, 2017 (UTC)

Sounds like one to me. Cohen was doing stuff all the time (If anything he was prolific). I find it very hard to belive it was 2years old and still be advertised as being new. sm --Solarmech (talk) 19:24, March 7, 2017 (UTC)

For the window, it's not clear if it's "The Lighthouse" since p. 138 mentions multiple lighthouse structures and p. 238 says "the main lighthouse".
For Why Even Ask? as it turns out, the 1958 date has been there since the page was created back in 2010. I haven't been able to find where the 1958 date came from whether through inference or if there is an actual date somewhere.
In any case disregarding that BaS came after the novel, the Burial at Sea poster also indicates the record is "Stereo" which did not appear on the other posters. Stereo recording was also a very new invention in the late 50s/early 60s since the majority of previous commercially sold records were only mono. Given that it was common practice to remarket old recordings using stereo as a cash-in gimmick (whether real or "electronically reprocessed"), I wouldn't put it past him. UpgradeTech (talk) 21:06, March 9, 2017 (UTC)

Bioshock: Rapture (Novel)Edit

Lets talk about the edits on here (Kelis98 (talk) 21:43, August 9, 2016 (UTC)).

It's very simple. New information, even if it contradicts older information always takes precedence. New supersedes old and it has always been that way. It does not matter if you like it or not either. You can believe all you want "Han Shot First", but that does not change what the new version shows of Star Wars shows and establishes as canon. Also Burial at Sea came from Ken Levine and Joe Fielder (primary sources), official writers for the games. The novel came from a "hired gun" who was not Irrational staff (a secondary source). sm --Solarmech (talk) 23:00, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Since when?, show me a source; that has never been the case from every source I can find. So?, how is bas "Establishes", when 1 and 2 are just "said to be". (Kelis98 (talk) 00:38, August 10, 2016 (UTC))

That was a quirk on my part when I originally wrote the table back in October 2015. I wanted to avoid repetition of phrases hence, "said to be", "established", and "stated" are meant to be used interchangeably and without bias on the source. UpgradeTech (talk) 01:01, August 10, 2016 (UTC)
Alright, so do you want to keep it the way it is or change it? (Kelis98 (talk) 19:04, August 11, 2016 (UTC))