Talk:Andrew Ryan
From BioShock Wiki
[edit] Non Canon Trivia and Speculation
(These are speculations about similarities that were never stated by the developers of BioShock.)
- His appearance is very similar to that of actor Vincent Price (especially on the Audio-Diary portrait)
- His appearance and voice also evoke actor Orson Welles as he appeared in the film Citizen Kane, a movie that centers on a powerful press magnate who ultimately alienates everyone close to him due to his hubris and ego and finds himself alone and isolated in his decaying palace full of beautiful artworks.
- Ryan's destroying Rapture is reminiscent from d'Anconia's, from Atlas Shrugged, worthless San Sebastian mine, in that the effort he put into it was considerably outweighed by the effort the 'Looters' put in to exploit it. Eg: while Ryan invested a sizable portion of his life in building Rapture it was only his life. Fontaine/Atlas invested not only his own life but also the lives of Jack, Jasmine, Langford, Wilkins and countless others in seizing control, and summarily got very little for their pains(Fontaine's capture of Rapture was short lived and ultimately ended with his death).
- Also Ryan can be seen to resemble d'Anconia', as he is willing to compromise his principles to defeat the 'Looter' enemy which cannot be otherwise defeated. Perhaps he did have some grand plan to defeat Atlas and return victorious, perhaps his plan was Jack, a living metaphor for Ryan himself; he that was controlled by his foes into unspeakable acts, does himself defeat his foes by sheer resolve and will power.
- By some interpretations of what he says he appears to be a hypocrite. However Objectivism as a whole justifies much of what he says and does. That not withstanding though, much of what he says and does towards the end, chronologically, contradicts what he says in the early days:
- For example in his speech he states, "Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow." When Fontaine proves to be more businesses savvy, he orders him to be killed and nationalizes his company. This is, however, only after allowing Fontaine to amass his fortunes. It is only when Fontaine shows real threat of becoming a tyrant. As shown by his recordings in Arcadia; e.g. 'Offer a better product'. It is also with the complete knowledge that Fontaine is a 'Looter'(See Atlas Shrugged).
- He also says, "Where the great would not be confined by the small." But almost immediately he begins making rules and regulations, which suit him best, allowing him to control the population of rapture. This spate of rules are, however, limited to only one rule 'No Contact with the Surface', which is later expanded into Smuggling and then into the war on Fontaine. But fundamentally Ryan is the 'greatest' because he built Rapture and he is not 'confined' by the 'small' because he does not take their views into consideration, as shown by 'Arresting Fontaine'.
- Ryan even goes as far as charging admission for Arcadia and selling oxygen. Both of these are, however, perfectly acceptable parts of the Objectivist philosophy and, indeed, fit with his policy of burning his above-water forest rather than let "the rabble" "stand slack-jawed under the canopy and pretend that it was paradise earned." Additionally Arcadia, doubtlessly, took a great deal of investment on Ryan's part, and to merely provide it as a free service because it is required makes as much sense as providing free electricity when it costs you money to buy the coal to burn.
- Furthermore he states "No Gods or Kings only Man," and in his speech "Where the scientist would not be constrained by petty morality," yet he expresses shock, when he discovers Jasmine Jolene sold his son's embryo. This manifests a murderous rage and he beats her to death with a pipe. Though this could just as easily be seen as betraying him, selling out his 'property'. Additionally petty morality is morality which stands in the way of progress, not morality in general. As McDonagh, Sullivan and Tenenbaum show morality is not something to be abandoned but an integral part of Objectivism; it defines what takes you forward and what holds you back; i.e. Selling your child, your ticket to immortality, will definitely hold you back.
- He says "Where the artist would not fear the censor," but orders Sullivan to assassinate Anna Culpepper after she insulted Sander Cohen by releasing her song, "Ryan's Songbird".
- He also claims to have made Rapture a place where "The great would not be confined by the small." Yet he fanatically tries to remain in power doing things from placing a bounty on Jack's head, to sending hordes of splicers after him to even gassing Julie Langford and even trying to suffocate Jack by destroying Arcadia. Finally, he went so far as to try to blow Rapture up to prevent Atlas from seizing control. Though it could be argued that placing a bounty on Jack's head was simply pest control, preventing the 'CIA' or 'KGB' 'Looters' from invading Rapture. Additionally, Arcadia and Rapture are both, fundamentally, his; to do with what he wishes. If he so chooses to throw his entire oxygen producing capacity, and later the entire city, behind destroying a single rogue operator then that is his choice. Choice being the very foundation of Objectivism.
[edit] Andrew Ryan: Ex Soviet?
Is Andrew Ryan really a ex-Soviet? I thought the reason he started Rapture was because the US Gov't wanted to turn his park into a national forest?
I think so too...
- Response by Chasmyr:
Andrew Ryan is an ex soviet. Go to the BioShock home page and read the section called characters, you'll find that he came to the US during WWII. You're also right about the forst thing, but I can't verify that it was American soil that the forest was on because I haven't looked into it. He tells you about it in Arcadia, you can read the diary log about it (yes the game keeps a log of all com messages and audio diaries you've had).\
- Response by --Klivian 13:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Also, in the Working Late Again audio diary, he refers to himself as Andrei, the Russian version of Andrew. Okay I'm new so I may not be the best at discusing but Andrew Ryan I have to say dose bare a strange reseblense to Orson Welles and even sounds like him a bit.
I'm rather confused. The article says he left the Soviet Union in 1919, two years before the end of the Russian Civil War and the creation of the USSR. That's kind of impossible.
[edit] Voice Actor
Who is the voice actor for Andrew Ryan? And I think we should start listing these for current articles.
Is It just me or does Andrew ryan resemble Enoch Powell (old conservative politician).
Andrew Ryan has a striking resemblance to Vincent Price.
[edit] A number of points on Ryan
Yes, Ryan is supposed to be a former citizen of the Soviet Union, having fled for the United States in 1919 (he says as much in one of the public address announcements, when he describes his history). "Ryan" is thus not likely to be his original last name. He later became disenchanted with the US Government as well (including the forest incident as one example). The name "Andrew Ryan" is a play on Ayn Rand, the author and philosopher whose work inspired much of the story of Bioshock. Rand also came to the United States as a refugee from the Soviet Union in real life, changed her name, and was also later a critic of a number of political policies and social trends in the mid-20th century United States as well. Much of the philosophy Ryan expounds is based on Rand's philosophy of Objectivism.
The voice actor for Ryan is Armin Shimerman, a very talented Hollywood character actor probably best known for his work in several Star Trek series and the Buffy The Vampire Slayer TV show.
Ryan's appearance rather reminded me of Howard Hughes, maybe around the late 1940s or early 1950s: the very model of a brilliant and visionary, but extremely unbalanced, titan of industry and science (who also was known for many dalliances with young and famous women, fought multiple conflicts with the US government, fled the United States, and died in deluded, self-imposed exile). Ken Levine explicitly described Ryan as "Howard Hughes and Ayn Rand together". The similarity with Orson Welles also recalls Welles' writing and portrayal of Charles Foster Kane in Citizen Kane, a thin guise of the real-life publishing magnate William Randolph Hearst.
76.90.93.198 12:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Is He Really Dead?
Seeing as it is possible to turn on the vita chamber after he dies, wouldn't that revive him? Or do you have to die while it was turned on for it to revive you, this was never really explained, so can we be certain that he really IS dead?
Since Ryan died while the chamber was off, I would say, yes.
I like to think that after Jack gets the Key to the City, he would use the Vita-CHamber to revive Ryan. He would then keep him tied up in a wheelchair and feed him through a tube against his will. Jack would mash up Ryans food and change his diapers every day. And at every possible opportunity remind Ryan how he has enough of a burden feeding ≈20 children/holding the world hostage with a soviet nuke. But even though Ryan does not contribute in any way what so ever, so he would be forced to sit in agony as he is a parasite but can do nothing about it.
–any comments?
However, it should be noted that, if you are killed in Rapture's Control Room, the Vita-Chamber is automaticly, so Ryan would have been revived by the reactivated chamber.
[edit] why are his audio diaries just hanging around?
Seriously, they are never placed in a particular spot, they're just around. During Rapture's prime, would Ryan just wander the various districts, reciting his philosophies into his recorder, then like, look around to see no one is looking, then toss the cassette behind a trash can or in the shelf of an empty market stall, sorry for this abhorrent run on sentence.
There are likely two different reasons: If 2K left all of his diaries stashed in a closet in Rapture Central Control, it would be sort of anticlimactic, and you would barely get to know him in the first half of the game. OR, the place where he kept his diaries was ransacked and therefore his diaries became scattered all over Rapture. I rather believe it's the former, to preserve game atmosphere.
[edit] Another possibility on Ryan's motivations for death?
Is it possible that Ryan chose to die at the hands of Jack, believing other assassins would be sent? Since Jack cleared the path to Ryan's office, the door would seem to be open for Fontaine to send splicers after Ryan. Perhaps, knowing this, Ryan chose to die in a calculated attempt to free Jack, or set him against Atlas/Fontaine?
It could also be that what he continuously repeated while dying, "A man chooses, a slave obeys." was a motif for it. Of course not as the only reason for his suicide, but as one of them, that he was epmhasizing this point. Also possible that since he was a man of strict morals and ideals, yet he had allowed some of the to become corrupt he wanted to hold onto the ones he had not betrayed, that is the one relating to the quote mentioned above. This is just speculation though...
[edit] Ryan and Atlas
The article states that, "Although Frank Fontaine set Jack on his journey to kill Ryan using the would you kindly trigger phrase, Ryan knew exactly what was occurring."
With this I tend to disagree. I feel as if Ryan did not figure out what was going on until Jack was halfway to knocking out the power on his mag locks on his office door. Ryan informs Jack over the radio that there is a feeling of nostalgia that Jack is experiencing (this one of the earlier indications of Ryan becoming aware that Jack is his son). Even moments before his death Ryan states, "You hear me, Atlas?! Andrew Ryan offers you nothing but ashes!" I do not think that Ryan ever figured out that Atlas and Fontaine were the same person. I know, he knew Fontaine had purchased Jack's embryo, and that Atlas had control over Jack. But I do not think Ryan ever realized they were the same person.
Any thoughts?
--Atlas the Fisherman 22:04, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Another thing to note is that he did not initially release that the intruder was his son- your first encounter with him, the first time he speaks with you directly, he interrogates you about what foreign intelligence agency sent you- "which one of the bitches sent you? CIA? KGB?" (paraphrase, don't remember the exact wording). As for the "You hear me, Atlas?!" line, I think it's entirely possible he meant it mockingly- if you changed it to "You hear me, 'Atlas'?!", the meaning changes significantly. I think perhaps he was aware of Atlas's true identity, and scorned him for not being man enough to face him openly. 76.170.115.63 20:52, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Actually Ryan KNEW the whole time that Jack was his son since he step into Rapture because the sercurity system didn't tear him a new asshole the first time he saw a turret
This is the whole story with Jack,Andrew,Atlas,and Fontaine.Andrew Ryan impregnated a showgirl(hooker,stripper,I don't know what they're called)named Jasmine Jolene,Ryan was unaware of this so Jasmine had the embryo(Jack)removed and sold it to Fontaine.Suchong,Fontaine,and Tenenbaum genetically alter and brainwash the embryo to jump when anyone says,"Would you kindly".Ryan found out about this and killed Jasmine,before the boss fight with Fontaine he mentions sending Jack up in a sub,so apparently Jack was sent up,and brang back down in order to,"Go to Ryan's office and kill the son of a bitch",in other words assassinate the now somewhat insane Andrew.I think that Ryan always knew somewhere in the back of his mind that Jack was his son,or related to him.Know it was possible that Andrew had no clue because Jack could have easily hacked the security tech just as the splicers have,I doubt Ryan knew that Atlas was actually Fontaine,maybe towards his death Andrew realized that Jack could be his son and Atlas was Fontaine.
[edit] Sources for some of the paragraphs.
What is the source for all that stuff in his article about him being the "youngest billionaire in the country," and when he was born, etc...?
- Unfortunately, I have no idea. I really wish people would source things more often... -§tigma-231 ♠powerful phrase {τalk}{¢ont} 17:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't recall hearing or reading anything like that in the game, so besides that i don't think there is anything "canon" from the game.
[edit] possible trivia?
If you lose the "E" and the "W" in "Andrew Ryan" it becomes a perfect anagram of "Ayn Rand". Perhaps worthwhile to add to the article? 195.198.148.86 07:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
NOPE
I think the bio stuff (i.e. early life) should be wiped until the whole thing and be sourced properly! Its uncanon!
[edit] Information from SITS
I suggest that information regarding the building of Rapture and Andrew Ryan's various companies be added here from the Something In The Sea website.--Gardimuer 04:44, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Trivia Section
The Trivia section is entirely to long, and is mostly just peoples' random speculation about similarities. I suggest that the "trivia" be restricted only to things that the creators of BioShock have mentioned in press releases.
Everything else, while certainly interesting, should be moved to the talk page where it belongs.--Gardimuer 23:35, November 1, 2009 (UTC)
